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Which means "Evil Twin". Lets see your projects where you change boring into fun or create the fun from scratch.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:39 pm 
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I figured out the coil pack over the weekend, but I'm going to complain about the process anyway.

ICT Billet's LS coil mounting kit... Of course *AFTER* I see this, I check the applications list and ICT does not claim it fits 12573190 coils... despite the fact that those units were used on tens of millions of engines built from 2005-2019.

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I fixed the end brackets

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And then found a better way to mount the coils that eliminates use of the end brackets completely. The screws shown are just for trail fit and are not the final ones for this assembly.

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The plate is the production Northstar coil pack base plate. It bolts directly to the rear bank cam cover with no extra effort. GM punched several holes in it when they stamped it, as you can see. Eight of those are "extruded holes" (e.g. https://www.unipunch.com/system-capabil ... ded-holes/ ) into which GM would have installed 5mm self-threading screws to secure the original coils and ICM. I drilled them out slightly and tapped them M6x1.0, cut four of the 12 spacers from the ICT kit in half, then dropped the coils in place as shown above. The four stacks of two coils each look like they'll be only a smidge bulkier than the original coils pack, all the high voltage terminals will be on one side and all the electrical terminals will be on the other side. Too easy.

I did some fitting and futzing with the throttle, but then decided I needed to have it no kidding in position before I finalize mods to the water manifold, so I got started on the throttle adapter. This has the right bolt patterns, but since I don't know how to cut a circle using the ProtoTrak, I am leaving that to the professionals.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 7:17 pm 
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TheDarkSideOfWill wrote:
Also, I snagged a 3.91 F40 from a '03-'04 Saab late last year... it's been kicking around the back of my van in a tote for months and months. I finally verified the ratios and dropped it into "storage" next to my '09 Saab F40 with High Feature V6 bellhousing. My aim is to snag an '07 G6 F40 and merge it with the 3.91 F40 to build The Mule's eventual transmission. The '09 Saab trans will get married up to a LLT of LFX to be ready for... something. It has MU9 gearing, so I'd love to get an MT2 0.62 sixth for it.

I was surprised to find that it looks like this box has a Torsen or similar diff.

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Circling back for a sec...
This thread mentions a factory Saab helical LSD... so apparently I lucked out in that this transmission has one. Sweeeeeet!

https://www.uksaabs.co.uk/UKS/viewtopic ... 94#p929894


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2021 2:37 pm 
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Put the coil pack together last weekend

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Didn't get any pics of the bore in the adapter, but had the first iteration of the single plate throttle adapter cut
It still had serious clearance problems. The water manifold is *NOT* in place in this photo.

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Got this measurement over to Eric, who confirmed that the 8 wire throttle actually has a larger dimension than the 6 wire unit, so I won't be able to switch to improve clearance.

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And this measurement was a big PITA to get.

After evaluating the fit of this first iteration of the adapter, I'm pretty sure I can make it work this way, but not this revision. The bore in the manifold is 3.120" while the edge on the throttle is 3.030". The bore in the adapter is 3.030 to match the throttle. The bore in the adapter ended up tangent to the BOTTOM of the bore in the manifold, so I can move the adapter bore up until it is tangent at the TOP of the manifold bore. There wasn't really any room to move the throttle around on the adapter; I did a decent job getting that right the first time.

I ALSO noted that if I angle the 3.030" bore in the adapter such that the long axis of the resulting ellipse is 3.120" on the adapter surface, that angle is 14 degrees. Angling the bore to offset the throttle gives me another 0.90 in a 3/8" plate. I think between moving the bore up to tangency at the top of the manifold plate and angling it 14 degrees further up, I should have "plenty" of clearance to make everything work.

However, the bolt holes are overlapping awkwardly, so I need to put some more thought into how to deal with that.

I do need to test fit with the motor on top. That's the original orientation, so it's actually "right-side-up" that way. However, I need to counterbore the adapter plate and get (cut/make) shorter M6 screws in order to do that.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2021 3:15 pm 
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I like the throttle, Its good to see sub mm clearances in at least 1 place on other peoples projects :)


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2021 5:36 pm 
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mk e wrote:
I like the throttle, Its good to see sub mm clearances in at least 1 place on other peoples projects :)


Lol... it's not clearance yet!

I really wanted to mount it motor down (upside-down vs. original mounting) because that would look cleaner. However, it looks like the way that's mechanically possible to mount it is right-side-up with the motor on top... as long as the black plastic gearbox cover clears the water neck on the other side of the throttle.

I need to put some counterbores in the adapter plate to make all the screws play nice together when it's mounted that way, though.

I may be able to fall back on a 90 degree mounting if nothing else works, but that will look even weirder.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2021 6:45 pm 
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Figures I would get so far down this path than discover... another path.

The '06 FWD Northstar had an 96mm throttle... but RockAuto doesn't list that as being shared with anything. I sort of @$$umed it was shared with something and didn't think much more about it.

The LS4 has a 77mm throttle that's shared with the Atlas 5 cylinder engines and is a big-brother to the Cobalt SS Supercharged throttle

The '95-'99 Northstar manifold has a 79mm opening.

On a lark I checked out the '06 RWD Northstar throttle. Dammit, it's 80mm and a brand new GM Genuine unit is available for $80. LOL. It uses a different electrical connector and is built in the opposite hand from the LS4 throttle. That means that if I mount it motor down, then the gearbox would be on the opposite side. Unless it's exceptionally compact, I don't think I'd be able to mount it motor down, but mounting it motor UP should be easier than mounting the LS4 throttle motor up, as it wouldn't have interference between the water neck and gearbox.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:35 am 
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The bolt pattern for the LH2 throttle is incompatible with the bolt pattern for the manifold, unless I mount the LH2 throttle at an odd angle.

The LS4 throttle mounts gearbox up and has wide clearance to fuel rail and water neck. The bushing boss on the "far side" of the throttle interferes with the "lobe" on the water manifold. Didn't you already cut that lobe off of a water manifold? Why, yes, I did. However, on inspecting that water manifold, I see that the divider wall between the water to the block and water from the cylinder heads kicks over a bit under the lobe. This pushes some of the required flow area up into the lobe, ensuring that water flows through the lobe. This is good for heat exchange purposes with the EGR gasses, but also means that cutting off the lob and welding a lid in its place reduces the coolant flow area to the right/rear bank. D-oh.

I'm looking at using the '93-'99 Northstar throttle spacer with a different adapter plate and the LS4 throttle (although I might be able to use the LH2 throttle in that case).
The factory throttle spacer is clunky in that it has a bunch of extra cavities to plumb PCV fresh air from behind the MAF sensor and supply idle air metered by an IAC stepper. I can just close all those off with the stock gasket and a new adapter plate... but... [sigh]...


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:21 am 
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Its the little things that seem to cause the most trouble. My advice, for what its worth, is quit dicking around with it and get it done. Hold the TB you want as close to where you want it that it actually fits and make an adapted to mount it there. A plate that fits the intake, a plate for the TB, weld in some bits to connect them ....3-4 hours work max and move on to something more fun like driving it :)


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:52 am 
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A 3" long two plate adapter was my first thought, the there is not much space to push the throttle out and still have room for the MAF and intake tube.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:58 am 
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it sound like you problem is the silly MAF ;)

you don't need a perfectly straight run....you could use your adapter to raise or rotate slightly to clear the shit that is in you way....let me school you in the 1mm clearance is plenty rule or packaging :lol:


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