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Which means "Evil Twin". Lets see your projects where you change boring into fun or create the fun from scratch.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:53 pm 
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This project has been going on for over 7 years now and my posts a scattered around the web....so I'm going to collect them all up here as best I can.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:54 pm 
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10-09-2007
My patio is pretty much done and winter coming, so I'm aloud in the workshop again and my 308 V12 conversion is beginning...sort of.

For those that missed it on the other thread, the plan is to take a 400i engine, fit it with TR heads, get it up to 550-600hp, and stuff the whole thing into my 308.

The first problem I've run into so far is that even though my wife says I can work on the car (I know, I know....but just doing what I'm told makes life SOOO much better or from “the Italian job” – if there’s one thing I’ve learn, you don’t mess with (***) Ukrainians”) I can't spend any money doing it, so there is no budget My wife however does not have access to my ebay/paypal info though, so anything in those accounts is ferrari money. To that end, the QV engine is in parts and on ebay as I type, so go bid generously, it's for a good cause The qv heads are not listed yet, but will be out of the porting shop in a week or so ( I need to quit changing my mind about what I’m doing) and will be for sale then – these heads will let you make 320-350 naturally aspirated hp out of a QV/328 engine (depending on what all you do),and just plain obscene hp if you are planning boost as well - $4500 exchange, $6500 outright and remember, everything goes to a good cause.

There is a set of complete (cams, covers, ect) TR heads in transit to me right now and the 400i should be on it's way very soon (now go bid generously so I can pay for it). I was thinking 412 because it’s 100cc bigger, but the 400 turned up at a good price, so 400 it is.

Another F-chatter asked about whether the 365 (DOHC)/400/400i/412 engine can be installed in a 308 which is what started this whole thing, so the first order of business will be to see what is required to get the engine in the car. The 330/365 SOHC engines have been used, but are quite pricey these days where the 400/412 engines are about the same as a 308 engine. I’ll be making drawings of all the parts as I go, so a conversion kit can be put together for anyone else foolish enough to consider it.

Pictures and updates will follow as things progress.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:55 pm 
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10-09-2007
The cost is first on my list, I can't afford one. The next thing would be the size of the thing, the valve covers are about 2" longer I'm told....that seems like a problem.

There's no need to convert to cars though, there are a number of aftermarket ECUs that will run the engine and cost less and work better than the carb conversion would. I will be running EFI with 12 individual throttle bodies on the 400 engine.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 7:33 pm 
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10-09-2007
None it appears to want to fit together very well, but I’m pretty stubborn and have a sawsall, torch, tig and mig welders, milling machine, lathe and assorted other fab tools at home and I’m not afraid to use them I also have access to CNCs, wire and plunge EDMs at work. It’ll all go, it’s just a question of how much time it takes.

The 400 heads are the same bore spacing and bolt pattern as the TR, so there is hope, but I don't think it's been tried before and I have no idea about water and oil passages. I’m hoping the Ferrari engineers were as lazy as me and just used what they already had, they did it with the bore and bolts......if not they weld shut and drill pretty easily

The fall back plan is to stick with the 400 heads….but they don’t flow very well so I’d need a supercharger to hit the hp goal…..unless I use the welder and mill to relocate the intake ports to the inside of the Vee where they belong….but that is a lot of work.

I upgraded the cooling system a few years ago to handle the 520-540 hp supercharged QV engine that I took out. So that part of the project is already done.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 7:38 pm 
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10-09-2007
There are a couple problems with the 400/412 heads. One is the ports just plain point the wrong way, but maybe that can be over come....I'm surprised they were able to get that much air through them. I'm wondering how much cam they're using??

The second problem is that 365/400 carb arrangement has no cahance of fitting in a 308 engine bay....maybe with new intakes to use downdraft carbs, I can't see any possible way to use the side draft set-up.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 7:39 pm 
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10-09-2007
If I keep the 400 heads, I might be interested....but the TR heads will require a different shape dome on the piston


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 7:41 pm 
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10-10-2007
Thank you. My wife didn't need to see any checks come to the house....because then it's patio furniture money

Now the rest of you, there’s lots of 308 engine stuff up for auction and I’ll be listing more soon, so bid early and bid often, it’s all for a good cause

My TR heads will be here next Wednesday. Tasman really thinks I don’t need them, so after I get the engine and do the first test fit, I’ll run the TR and 400 heads up to my buddy Vic’s flow bench for a quick flow test, inspect, advise, and planning session. I know 2 valve engines can and do make just as much hp as 4 valve engines in the bore/stroke ratio range we’re talking about here, but those 365/400/412 ports are just all wrong….we’ll see though.

QV heads can be made to flow well enough to get about 42 hp per cylinder with stock (328) cams, I’ve got to believe the TR heads are similar which would yield just over 500 hp with similar mild cams…and it should be more because the 400 cylinders are bigger and will pull a little more vacuum. The bigger cylinders will also and tolerate more cam without losing low end which should push the number up to the mid to high 500s. I just don’t see the 400 heads being able to compete, but well see….I’ve been wrong before.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 7:42 pm 
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10-10-2007
Yeah....dynos really separate out the chaf pretty well and any claim that comes without a dyno sheet can't be taken very seriously. Bob really made his reputation with turbo systems and he's very good at them....but I don't think he ever owner a flow bench which is a must for naturally aspirated engine development. If he did, the intake system in the photos would be in the dumpster, it could just never feed 600(naturally aspirated)hp....never.

I've got somewhat accurate engine simulation soft (once you get the inputs "right") and access to a couple other software packages and they all agree within a couple % that if the TR heads can match the QV heads for flow, I can build a 550+hp engine without crazy cams or redline. Now I just need to see if the TR heads (or better yet the 400 heads) can in fact match the flow of the flow of QV heads......


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 7:43 pm 
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10-10-2007
Thanks, but I have a 400i engine lined-up and waiting....now go bid on my autions so I can make this dream come true


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 7:43 pm 
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10-10-2007
You know....I asked for TR heads thinking 512TR and ASSUMED that's what I bought.....I should have asked the year I need to get that answer. I don't think it really matters too much if I'm going to port and do cams anyway, but it would be good to know.

Edit: Are there even any differences you know of? The hp bump in the 2 model looks simple what you'd expect by replacing the CIS with EFI?


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