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11-20-2007
We can. I've been using the DRO on the mill because I have it at home and know how to use it, but I do have access to a CMM at work if required....I'd just have to get a a lesson or help to run it.

11-20-2007
No, it won't fit without stretching the wheel base or way off-set the 1/2 shafts. It will go in a 348 and newer, but it won't go in in a 308/328. I was looking at a a complete TR driveline with the subframe that was for sale 5 or 6 years ago. now a 4" frame stretch with GTO panels would do it nicely.

11-20-2007
Perfect!

I was trying to do everything email and couldn't convince myself there was hope. If you get a different answer I still have time to change directions.

11-20-2007
Give me the dimension from the front of the engine to the center of the axle. I've got my trans sitting in the otherwise enmty engine bay so with that dimension I'll know in minute if it will go and I don't think it will, a tr is bigger for a reason......

Edit: Give me a width cover to cover too, that could be a problem with the rear suspension.

11-20-2007
I'm fine with with no trunk, but i do need a firewall behind the seats and I don't think the tr/boxer driveline will allow that with the stock wheel base. I also need rear suspension and I'm concerned that the width and placement of the TR/boxer engine relative to the axle centerline will not allow that either. Those are the 2 problems I recall from 5-6 years ago when I first considered it and why I was thinking TR subframe and GTO panels. Had I seen the job Bert did on his fenders at the time, I might have jumped in thinking I could fly him over when the time came

quote
dimensions are as follows:

overall length from pulley to transfer gear cover - 44"
width from valve cover to valve cover - 30"
axle shaft centerline from front pulley - 27"
height from bottom of pan to underside of cylinder heads - 10"
over all height of injected engine from pan to plenum - 28"

The length is right with room to spare once the trunk firewall and floor are gone. The axle centerline is dead nuts the same as the 308 considering the firewall angles and the crank pulley would be low. The width is right with the exception of the damn upper control arm mounts (like you thought). I didnt spend much time looking but they would need to be reworked and PLOP in she goes with room all around. The actual measurement I got was 29" of room by eyeballing the height of the valve covers from my boxer, the engine is around 30" in that area so it wont fit without a modification to the frame. It can be done, its a question of what do you modify, a 12 cylinder engine that has a particular value, a 308 gearbox too or a 308 rear frame section. You can also sell the 308 gearbox and the 400 engine to recoupe some dough. I would go for the flat12 but im biased.

I can take more measurements or pics if needed.

11-20-2007
The upper control arm mount is a straightforward job now that I look at it, no problem there. The bigger problem is the frame cross member at the rear of the engine bay would just plain need to come out. I could move it behind the engine, but that will leave the suspension mounts quite a bit springier than they are now…..let me think about that one.

It looks like the axles would need to be shortened, and maybe a slight angle depending where everything comes out with the firewall angle, not a big deal though. Then lose the truck and it’s in.

It also looks tight for the exhaust to frame clearances, but doable. Not much space left for the mufflers, but again doable I think.

The biggest problem is the rear frame cross member I think…..hmmm. I guess a tall box, like 4” by 12” that wraps around behind the engine and grabs both the lower and upper A-arm mounts would give at least equivalent strength and not look too bad.

Ok, I’m convinced it can be done, a lot of work on the chassis, but probably not more work than I’m planning for the engine/trans.

Then it’s a question of money I guess. I’ve got $8k into the 400 and TR heads and will need another, oh say $4k, ok maybe $6k, so $14k.

If I sell it all and the 308 trans, maybe I’ve got $10k??? . A used TR engine/trans would run 12k? 20K? I’m just not sure. I’d want to do the heads at least to get the hp up to spec, so probably a full rebuild on the engine. If I could get a tired engine and a good trans for $10k-$12k it would be about a wash money wise I guess.

I’d need real number on TR stuff I guess to make a decision.

11-20-2007
Interestingly there are 2 on ferrariadds. A nice '86 set-up for $19k and a sad '87 set-up for $17k. So $7k over budget

It looks like I stay the course if these prices are realistic.

11-20-2007
I just paid $4k for Nice TR heads, and a decent bottom end just sold for $2k....so thinking about it, the '87 is probably actually worth about $6k, maybe $8 at the VERY outside. That would make it about a wash money wise if I can get him to go for what I think is a reasonable number.

I'm struggling mentally with the cutting though, I was not planning to cut up a perfectly good car. I'm sure I can do it, but it's a lot of cutting. If I cut up the 400 block and screw it up I'm out $1000. If I get the engine done and screw up the 308 gear case, another $1000. If I cut the trunk and rear frame apart and screw-up I'll turn a $10k rolling chassis into a $2k chassis? Than if I ever need to sell the car, it will be tuff to convince a buy that it's ok that I cut the snot out of the frame but most people will never even think to ask how much cutting and welding I did on the engine block.

I don't know......

11-20-2007
Ok, Lana says that if I change the engine another time I should plan divorce costs into the project.

400 engine it is. It’s nice when decisions are made easy.

If somebody else needs help putting a boxer or TR engine in a 308, I'm pretty sure I know how it can be done, but it won't be done in my car.....at least not this one.

11-21-2007
You guys are not helping me stay on track........