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Which means "Evil Twin". Lets see your projects where you change boring into fun or create the fun from scratch.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 7:10 pm 
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I got the remaining 2 bungs installed....no time for springs tonight though.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 8:58 am 
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mk e wrote:
mk e wrote:
Lana had me on tree planting duty yesterday (18 5' trees) and I head something about it would be nicer with a few more so car time will suffer today....hopefully I'll get some car time.

The springs for the exhaust are here though so material wise I'm good to go.


It was 14 more trees.....I'm beat but finally free to head to the shop!



What did you put up, Dark Americans, Emerld Greens?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:25 am 
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Pizzaman wrote:

What did you put up, Dark Americans, Emerld Greens?


Giant arborvitaes on 6 foot centers which should be a 200 foot long 20+ foot tall hedge in 4-5 years and kind of match the emerald arborvitaes near the house and around the pool.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:47 am 
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Post a pic as I have no cooking clue what you on about :)


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:53 am 
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Had another look at the "snakes"..man you have skills.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 1:33 pm 
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mk e wrote:
I got the remaining 2 bungs installed....no time for springs tonight though.


How many O2 bungs are there??

From the pictures it looks like 14 (1 per cyl and 1 per side?)

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"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" ~Arthur C. Clarke


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:06 pm 
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mk e wrote:
Pizzaman wrote:
You're going to have 12 o2 sensors?? :shock:


No...14

My thought is to put WBO2 in the collectors for normal mixture tuning and normal use. Then WAY less expensive NBO2 ($25 each on amazon) in the pipes that I'll use for checking cylinder to cylinder mixture at or near stoich to make sure everything's matched and also since they react in a msec or so it should be possible to see any cycle to cycle variation if it exists at any mixture (but not measure actual mixtures away from stoich). I've never tried this before but I thing it will give some interesting data....the AEM/enginelab ECU logs at 1000hz (as does the M150 motec I;ve have in case the enginelab doesn't work the way I think it should) which will give me at least a couple readings per cycle even at redline.....and if the data is not what I expect I have caps for the bung holes and I'll go back to just 2 sensors :)


Got my answer to the last question!

I've seen systems which sample a single narrowband per bank many times per cycle to determine the individual cylinder fueling errors. The average of a cycle is used for the normal closed-loop control, and the variance of specific samples to the average of the cycle is attributed to specific cylinders. The end result trims each cylinder individually and can detect failing parts which aren't bad enough to be caught as misfire. So you could do with as few as 4 sensors, if they are narrowbands (which are really fast).

I'd expect the individual cylinder errors can be trimmed pretty well with 14 sensors. Depending on how you wire it you can probably estimate rough EGT from the narrowband heater resistance.

I've thought for awhile about the possible response of using a WB as an offset NB sensor. Instead of controlling pump current to hold the Nernst cell at stoich (control loop #1) and using the pump current to control fueling (control loop #2), it would set the pump current to the target lambda and do closed-loop fueling based on the Nernst cell feedback (1 loop instead of 2). I'm curious if this would be faster response, especially near stoich where the WB sensor keeps flipping polarity on the pump. This would allow individual cylinder measurement with the fast NB sensor and still the off-stoich operation of the WB sensor.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 4:16 pm 
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apalrd wrote:

Got my answer to the last question!

I've seen systems which sample a single narrowband per bank many times per cycle to determine the individual cylinder fueling errors. The average of a cycle is used for the normal closed-loop control, and the variance of specific samples to the average of the cycle is attributed to specific cylinders. The end result trims each cylinder individually and can detect failing parts which aren't bad enough to be caught as misfire. So you could do with as few as 4 sensors, if they are narrowbands (which are really fast).

I'd expect the individual cylinder errors can be trimmed pretty well with 14 sensors. Depending on how you wire it you can probably estimate rough EGT from the narrowband heater resistance.

I've thought for awhile about the possible response of using a WB as an offset NB sensor. Instead of controlling pump current to hold the Nernst cell at stoich (control loop #1) and using the pump current to control fueling (control loop #2), it would set the pump current to the target lambda and do closed-loop fueling based on the Nernst cell feedback (1 loop instead of 2). I'm curious if this would be faster response, especially near stoich where the WB sensor keeps flipping polarity on the pump. This would allow individual cylinder measurement with the fast NB sensor and still the off-stoich operation of the WB sensor.


I thought about running the NB or even the WB (innovate claims 25ms response on the LC-2) in the 4 3-cyl collectors and still might if the 12 fry so close to the head. Filtering and logging are the concern though as the best logging I've seen is 1khz which is 3 samples per cylinder per cycle at 10k rpm if my math is right....better than 1 sample I suppose but the timing of the sample will drift around a bit unless it's tied to crank position which I have no way to do really but could log crank position so at least I know when the reading was taken and maybe filter to a window. On a 3cyl there will never be 2 cylinders flowing at the same time so it should work I guess.....that might have been a better plan.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 7:51 am 
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I created a new thread for the programming talk:
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=167


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 8:56 am 
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mk e wrote:
I thought about running the NB or even the WB (innovate claims 25ms response on the LC-2) in the 4 3-cyl collectors and still might if the 12 fry so close to the head. Filtering and logging are the concern though as the best logging I've seen is 1khz which is 3 samples per cylinder per cycle at 10k rpm if my math is right....better than 1 sample I suppose but the timing of the sample will drift around a bit unless it's tied to crank position which I have no way to do really but could log crank position so at least I know when the reading was taken and maybe filter to a window. On a 3cyl there will never be 2 cylinders flowing at the same time so it should work I guess.....that might have been a better plan.


I think the using the 4 3-1 collectors is a better plan.....I ordered 4 more bungs. I'll leave the 12 pipe bungs for now though just in case. Now to add code to the ECU to separate the signals.


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