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I'm afraid that if I don't put in stairs I won't use it at all, but to you're point , once the stairs are in the space becomes pretty useful.

I'm not loving how I did that truss math or how the program works exactly. There is no frikin way a stamped metal plated joints are ridig but I can't call those free without calling everything at the node free which is also for sure not true for a board that passes through the node. Then I was being lazy with the math and calling a 2x4 1 for I and A then scaling for the larger sizes....but the I to A ratio was wrong doing that and got worst when I scaled...I put in the right numbers and not things make more sense and respond a bit more like I'd expect....funny how that works and I'm sure its more correct now if still not perfect. Now what I had designed was still the best I can do with the lumber I have and is a touch stronger than the untouched trusses but 18% less strong than yours. 2x8s along the roof like you have fixes it and it needs to be solid if I'm going to be using it, $300 I'll need to explain to Lana.

For just heat I have the pex in the floor and can get that working with an electric heater for around $500....it will be expensive to run though. My thought was that would just make the floor comfy and add backup on cold days but the heat pump would do most of the work. The system I was eyeing is about $2500 then I'd need to pay the man to charge it once I get it installed. I'm pretty spoiled after the basement shop and don't know if I can go back to simple....but a big window ac unit is under $500 and I have a window. A small window unit for the bathroom is under $200 and I have a window there too. We'll see.

Lana is shopping for doors. I thought it was settled but not completely. Lana also helped me put the tyvek on today so the sheeting is out of the weather now.

My opinion is that only if you are going to be running up and down the stairs a lot is it worthwhile consuming all that floor space with a dedicated staircase. Fold-down stairs do work great, but they between a ladder and a true staircase. You have to descend them facing the stairs, just like a ladder. FWIW, I bought the Louisville Ladder L305P Big Boy Attic Ladder for my garage, but just because I like wood. As you have alluded to, the big question is what you are going to use the upstairs area for.

There are lots of cheap hillbilly ways of getting heat. I have a friend who circulates water through a system comprised of a gas-fired hot water tank and a big truck radiator. I think he got both for free.

No comment regarding structural calculations.

That is what got me to no upstairs originally....not enough floor space upstairs to justify losing prime space for the stairs and I don't have enough smalls I rarely need that will easily go up pull downs to justify the added cost and Lana's always beating on me to get rid of stuff I don't use.....but she's also envisioning everything tool related will be out of HER basement. Right now I have 2 rows of shelves 4x10...I'm guessing 1/2-2/3 of what is on them is supposed to go plus stuff like the sand blaster, table saw, etc that aren't on shelves but take space. Plus basically 1 full bay is going to end up consumed with the lawn stuff, pool stuff and assorted kids toys....I needed a garage twice this size I guess.

I'm thinking Kevin was exactly right, upstairs should be the "light" shop. Maybe do shelving build into the walls down the sides to keep the center open for things like the 3d printer, all my electric/electronic junk, blast cabinet, maybe leave the table saw and chop saw setup....I don't know.

If you are going to make the upstairs a workshop rather than just storage, consider heavy insulation in the walls and ceiling. In at least my (uninsulated) garage attic it gets sweltheringly hot whenever the sun is out.

YES!! already planning for that. With 2x8 rafters and room for air flow I can only get r19 in the ceiling, if like more but it's way better than nothing. I'm going to put an insulated exterior door up there, so close the door and the shop below was the benefit of 2 layers of insulation.

Yesterday, not being a football fan, I added cap nails to the tyvek then spent what felt like an eternity looking at doors and windows with Lana. The good news is I think the windows will go in Saturday, maybe the side doors so 1/2 the garage will be dry. Lana ordered a couple more color sample for the big doors last week, and we asked homedepot to quote 5 of what we think she likes...can't order until the samples arrive but hopefully late this week or early next week the door will be on order.

I have permission to proceed with the 2nd floor construction so tonight I will try to pick up the 2x8s and some other things to frame in the bath room then start the truss rework. The plan is to basically deftly an a layout by the time the framing is done so the wiring can start...at least that's the plan.

How about using a heat pump for the floor heating. Reduces energy cost to about 1/3. As time and usage goes on, its a winner.

I decided not to go with a heat pump for my garage. I keep the temp at 40 degrees when I'm not working in there and crank it up a few minutes before going out there to work on something. It would take me forever to heat the place up with a heat pump or with in floor heating when I want to go out there and work. My unit heater takes the chill off in less then 10 minutes and I have warm air blowing in 2 minutes. I admit the floor is still cold. In a perfect world I'd have the in floor heat running to keep the place at 40 and have a unit heater to crank up the temp quick when I go out there to work. There are times I need to have the doors open for a bit in the winter and its easy to just turn off the heat until I can close them. The floor and the tools are cold but I have plenty of thick rubber mats to stand on. Helps keep the cold away from my feet and helps the back and feet when standing for a while.

You spend more time out there so maybe you'll just heat it all the time? Sometimes a week goes by without me going out there to work on something that makes me want to heat the place up warmer. I'd put up lots of ceiling fans. On hot days I turn on the fan on the unit heater and set up 3 or 4 other various fans pointed at me while I'm working and most times I'm fine without AC. I do have a AC unit I pop in the window on rare occasions. Welding can be a pain since I have to turn off the fans but then again its nice to have the doors open for ventilation for welding.

I use about 100 gallons of propane a year to take care of my heating needs. I would have to believe you'll spend $300 a month in electric to keep the garage that size to 60 or 65 24/7 in the winter months?

If I tried doing what I do with a heat pump I'd have to keep bumping the temp up 2 degrees at a time to keep the aux heat from coming on and take half a day to get the garage from 40 to something comfortable. You're in a even colder climate than I am.

You probably should have put in more underground tubing for Geotherm while you were excavating for the garage?

The minisplit units are heatpumps.

Normally radiant heat is not connected to a heat pump because the higher you raise the temp the less efficient the heatpump is, and to work baseboard heat needs like 120F+ water temp....and forced air heatpump system runs at say 85F-90F or 30+ degrees colder. They do make heatpump hot water heaters these days but they kind of cheat/lie because they are designed to be installed in a house that is say 70F or warmer and they heat the water by cooling the the house, fine in the summer but not so much in the winter so I'm not so sure that would make sense.

I could put a radiator in front of the minisplit to at least pre-heat the water for the floor I guess...not sure how well that would work.

another option is run a propane line and use that to heat the floor, much cheaper than electric to run but would cost about $1000-$1500 more in materials I think.

I have a propane space heater, I could flip that on for quick warm-up and buy a mounted version and run a line from my big tank....maybe $500

In my house I have thermostats designed for heatpump systems. So set the temp to drop after 11pm, then say I want it warm at 6am and the system checks the outside temp and turns on at whatever time it needs to get the house back to temp at the set time without needing aux heat. My thought is something like this is what I'll do in the shop....set to 40 after 11pm and until the next day 5pm, and warm 5pm to 11pm....something like or maybe just flip it on when I get home, eat dinner and it will be ready. The key is it needs to be mostly the heatpump (minisplit) or I need to do something like Kevin has, it can't be resistive electric heat or I'll go broke.

Use a heat pump to pull heat out of a geothermal circuit and warm your floor circuit.

They make geo units to connect to floors. I need about a 3ton system (36kbtu), I can't just steal that much from the existing loop, I'd need to add. The unit itself would be around $4k then ...probably that much again for the loop and the tax credit has expired I think so no 30% off.....I'd need to spens a LOT of time out there to pay for it.